{"id":4465,"date":"2022-01-10T22:17:48","date_gmt":"2022-01-10T22:17:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost:8000\/?page_id=4248"},"modified":"2023-03-30T13:20:15","modified_gmt":"2023-03-30T20:20:15","slug":"jim-carroll-caught-in-a-trap-2","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/feature-articles\/jim-carroll-caught-in-a-trap-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Jim Carroll: Caught in a Trap"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\n
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\nHome<\/a> > Research <\/a>> Interviews<\/a> > Jim Carroll: Caught in a Trap (1999)<\/span><\/p>\n

Jim Carroll: Caught in a Trap<\/h1>\n

by Frank DiCostanzo & Michael Workman
\nLumpen Times<\/a> 8 May 1999<\/span><\/p>\n

Exclusive<\/b>: includes the entire Jim Carroll interview!<\/p>\n

On Saturday, May 8,
\ndiarist, musician and poet Jim Carroll made a rare appearance at Chicago night spot the
\nHothouse, 31 East Balbo, a spacious setting filled with Brazilian rhythms and flavor. He
\nread from his newest collection, Void Of Course<\/i> (published by Penguin Poets, New
\nYork), to many well-dressed admirers seated among dozens of roundtop tables. Before the
\nshow got underway, I managed to innocuously eat my Philly and fries from an opportune
\nstage left vantage, but not without having to fend off a phalanx of pushy waitresses.<\/p>\n

Entering the stage wearing a black leather jacket and
\nbluejeans, Jim Carroll was smoking a cigarette and carrying bottled water and several
\nbooks. The din of the audience dissipated as Mr. Carroll approached the microphone. He
\nspent the first minute slowly and methodically removing his jacket while gazing emptily
\nout into the audience, then giving a brief account, in that protean Noo Yawk accent, of
\nhis recent “Today Show” interview. He explained how the questions were
\npurposefully ham-fisted and meant to disturb, describing the sound stage as
\n“surreal.” This opening narrative helped to paint the image of a 70\u2019s poet
\ndisplaced.<\/p>\n

Shifting his focus anecdotally, Mr. Carroll went on to
\ntell of his extended Amtrak journey from Milwaukee and of his conversation with a
\n300-pound redneck. The first coroner on the scene of Jayne Mansfield\u2019s decapitation,
\nthe man was carrying a French book on Satanism titled La Ba<\/i>, which compares Anton
\nLa Vey with L. Ron Hubbard. Mr. Carroll quipped, to snickers from the audience, that both
\nauthors “knew the real money was in religion.” The redneck subsequently related
\nhow he and his partner Shorty referred to the head as “she” and to the rest of
\nMs. Mansfield\u2019s lifeless body as “that.” Mr. Carroll went to some depth in
\nhis reflections upon the religious and philosophical implications of such particular
\nlabels. At this point, Mr. Carroll\u2019s proselytizing ignited the conservative
\ndisposition of an unruly fan who rudely belted forth with fuzzy headed fervor, “What
\nthe fuck are you talking about!?” Apparently, the aspiring poet could not fully
\ndigest the metaphysical nature of this preliminary dialogue. However, Mr. Carroll was able
\nto somewhat skillfully subdue the young brute, who finally shut up after threatening to
\nphysically abuse several impatient audience members.<\/p>\n

After this colorful interruption, Mr. Carroll proceeded to
\nread several poems, including “A Day At The Races” from Forced Entries<\/i>,
\n“I Am Not Kurt Schwitterz” from Fear Of Dreaming<\/i> and, from Void Of
\nCourse<\/i>, “Facts,” “Sick Bird” (in which he left out the word
\n“urine”) and “8 Fragments For Kurt Cobain.” He concluded with some
\nsong lyrics off his newest album, Pools of Mercury<\/i>, giving sprechstimme<\/i>
\nperformances of “Falling Down Laughing” and “the Beast Within.”<\/p>\n

After the show I followed Jim backstage, where, after a
\nbrief introduction, during which he was trying to rouse up a cup of coffee, we settled
\ninto a discussion of Orpheus, death, the creative process, and Mr. Carroll\u2019s unique
\nperspective on the current state of poetry. We focused initially on how Mr. Carroll saw
\nhimself within a heritage thousands of years old, and on the Greek myth of Orpheus–a
\nThracian poet whose music moved even inanimate objects. He was able to charm Pluto, god of
\nthe Underworld, into releasing his dead wife Eurydice on the condition that he would not
\nlook back during his return journey to the surface world. Orpheus, in a moment of
\nthoughtlessness, looked back and, consequently, lost once more his love. Mr. Carroll shook
\nhis head in puzzlement at this comparison, and then gibed stone-facedly:<\/p>\n

\n Uhm\u2026I\u2019ve never thought about it [the relationship
\nof his career to the mythology], in relationship to my myth, or to my work\u2026well,
\nOrpheus, it was great that there were hummingbirds around him all the time.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

The reimagined story of Orpheus and his journey to the
\nunderworld is the subject of Salman Rushdie\u2019s newest work, The Ground Beneath Her
\nFeet<\/i>. During a recent speaking engagement with the Chicago Historical Society, the
\nauthor spoke about his writing process, and, while discussing the division of sense and
\nintellect, of inside and outside, brought up the example of a Warhol exhibit he had been
\nto. One piece consisted of a “learn to dance” floor arrangement, framed beneath
\nglass which people were being encouraged to walk over. Halfway through the dance pattern,
\nit became impossible to do. Rushdie went through it himself and also found it impossible.
\nA little girl behind him got to the point where everybody else stumbled through the
\ndiagram and she said, “Oh, I see. You\u2019ve got to step off it.” Stepping off
\nthe glass and then back on, she was able to complete the pattern. Mr. Carroll fixed his
\neye, carefully digesting the indirect approach I was taking to his work, and then summed
\nup the analogy:<\/p>\n

\n Uhm, she found, uhm, she knew that
\nshe had to go beneath the surface voice.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Mr. Carroll was perceptibly resolving the seemingly disparate elements of my preliminary
\nquestions into a conversant, and therefore more personable, means of expressing what I was
\nstruggling to get at, namely, how he uniquely perceives the world in which he must exist.
\nHis thoughts appeared to coagulate as he settled back and, listening intently, sipped his
\ncoffee while we turned to his <\/i>notions of poetry and music, as performance, and of
\nthe possibilities for the further integration of these two mediums. In typical Jim Carroll
\nfashion, he managed to respond with skillful abstraction:<\/p>\n

\n\t\t Uhm, I always found my own songs and poems to
\nbe two quite different mediums, you know. Aesthetically they\u2019d be the same, but
\ntechnically they\u2019re quite different, you know. I didn\u2019t like it when people
\nwould write that I wrote poems with music, you know, cuz they weren\u2019t\u2026and as for
\nthe future, I\u2026you know, uhm with the Pools Of Mercury<\/i> album I decided, well
\nwith Praying Mantis<\/i> I just, it was kind of defiant, I just needed to do no music at
\nall. You know, and uhm, you didn\u2019t need music to you know, to have poetry just like
\nhave its own rhythm, you know, the way it should work on the page but, with the Pools
\nOf Mercury<\/i> album, I wanted to, you know, like, uhm I mean you could just do so many
\nthings with music and stuff, and of course it goes back to the Meistersingers and the
\ntroubadours and the whole Proven\u00e7al tradition and stuff, and uhm, I think that with
\ncomputers, digitally, you can do so much, you know, you can move stuff around and stuff,
\ntechnically, you know, to fit a drum beat you can change the phrasing of the
\nwriter\u2014that\u2019s a problem. You know, I think it should always be done low-tech,
\nyou know, cuz at times we just change my phrasing\u2026I didn\u2019t have to read it over,
\nyou know, if you could draw out a word, you know, or put more of a pause between two
\nwords, you know, and that\u2019s a kind of dangerous thing, but uhm, fucking computer
\nprograms are going to ruin art in one way or another until we realize we\u2019re doing
\nthat, and then we\u2019ll revolt against them,\u2026uhm, so I think until then, until we
\ndecide to, you know, stop using digital technology and just go back to an analog
\ntechnology where you participate with the person\u2019s<\/i> technology\u2014or with the
\nother person\u2019s consciousness and they participate with yours, you know. It\u2019s not
\nsuch a broad thing, techno-oriented. Then, you know, rock \u2018n roll\u2019s gonna be
\nrock \u2018n roll and spoken word\u2019ll be spoken word. And if you unite the two
\ntogether, it\u2019ll sound interesting as a music and the musicians you work with and
\nstuff, you know. Otherwise you\u2019re going to have to write words that are meant to be,
\nyou know, done with music, uhm, which is somewhere between a song and a poem, because any
\npoem worth its salt has to work on the page, you know. And so uhm, I don\u2019t think that
\nway\u2026I mean, I read the poems which I knew were lyrical and read well\u2014from this
\nnew book, from Void Of Course<\/i>\u2014but I knew that I had read some of them already,
\nso it was a book that uhm, reading the poems that I knew read well, and then put music to
\nthem. And if you\u2019re going to do that, you might as well just write songs themselves
\nyou know, and sing them. No matter how limited your technical voice is, you know, you
\ncould always sing them in one state or another. But uhm, somebody\u2019ll probably come
\nalong and find some way to make, you know, one thing. I think it\u2019s going to happen
\nby, you know, one person will do one spoken word piece with music that\u2019ll bust out
\nand floor everybody, you know. But to sustain a whole album of it, I doubt if it\u2019ll
\nhappen. You know, I don\u2019t think people are ready for that.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Pausing momentarily to take in this
\ndelightfully circuitous reply, I then refocused and, picking up the reference to Void
\nOf Course<\/i>, piped in: “I find it interesting you just said that you had written it
\npretty fast, and yet the period spanned about four years, is that right?”<\/p>\n

“Well, it spanned about four
\nyears\u2014according to the book\u2014but that\u2019s only because, uhm, the Kurt Cobain
\npoem was written in 1994 and maybe two other poems. The Cobain poem was written after he
\ndied in 1994, you know, and that was really the oldest poem in it, uhm\u2026the rest of
\nthem I had\u2026all written like in the year and a half before I, uhm, handed in the
\nmanuscript. And actually, when after I handed in the manuscript to my editor, there\u2019s
\nprobably ten other poems in there that I gave him that I was working on, uhm, finishing
\nsecond drafts of, while we were editing it. There was like fifty pages of stuff we took
\nout; it was just a very prodigious period of writing poems for me, for the first time.
\nI\u2019m mainly working on these novels. But\u2026when poems came, you might as well just
\ngo with them, so I did. You know, it was a life situation, a personal situation that kind
\nof, uhm, made all this happen\u2026and it was my most\u2026profligate period of writing
\npoetry since I was, you know, a young poet at St. Mark\u2019s.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Touching upon his days as a young poet
\nfittingly led to a parallel between his experienced view of a creative process uniquely
\nhis own, and the lingering influence exerted by his early contemporaries. “Speaking
\nof the word poem\u2026why the frequency of that generic title throughout the book? Is it
\nan attempt to demonstrate any overarching lack of significance?”<\/p>\n

No\u2026it wasn\u2019t meant to demonstrate
\nanything, you know. I mean, I realized afterwards that there\u2019s a lot of poems, say,
\nthat Frank O\u2019Hara wrote\u2026if you look at his collected or selected poems even,
\nthat are just called \u2018Poem,\u2019 and they just refer to them through the first line.
\nLike the poem that are on the album that are called \u2018Poem\u2019 in the book, most of
\nthem, fortunately, that we chose had titles, but we just use the first line as a title,
\nyou know\u2026\u2018Female as thunder, the air filled with thought, felony,
\ndrainage\u2026\u2019 Well, that was just the way to go in that sense, and that\u2019s the
\nusual way you do it\u2014you go by the first line. I remember friends of mine telling me I
\nwas always good at doing titles for poems, you know. With this book, I wrote it so fast
\nthat I was writing notes or \u2018Poem,\u2019 you know, and that was it. And some poems
\nare titled \u2018Lines,\u2019 and that\u2019s because I didn\u2019t even, you know, even
\nthink about it when I got, uhm, galleys back, you know, \u2018Lines.\u2019 Originally I
\nwas going to go further with it or rewrite it or something, but I decided OK, that\u2019s
\nOK, but I forgot to really write a title or even change \u2018Lines\u2019 to
\n\u2018Poems.\u2019 So it was just the first time I was writing on a computer you know and
\nI liked that a lot. You could move the spacing around–you use the spacing to define how a
\npoem should be read for the people that haven\u2019t heard you read it. You know, a short
\nline, it slows down the poem. A long line speeds it up. You hang out a certain word to
\ngive it like a double entendre from the end of one paragraph–or is it the beginning of
\nthe next? Or stanza–I\u2019m in a prose frame of mind here. At any rate, that\u2019s what
\nyou\u2019re able to do so easily with a computer. So, writing on a computer, I actually
\nreally started to like it…you know, poetry in that sense–you know, being able to move
\nthings and cut and paste them around so easily. Otherwise, uhm, I always liked the idea of
\nwriting titles and stuff. John Ashbury once told me he wrote titles–when I was really
\nyoung–that he always titled the poem before he wrote it, you know, he wrote from a title,
\nwhich is very hard to imagine when you read his poems–they have nothing to do with the
\ntitle. But he comes up with a title, then writes the poem. It\u2019s usually the opposite
\nfor me, unless it\u2019s very specific. You know, I spent a lot of time investing thought
\nin titles. But, you know, the poems stand how they are–if I want to just call them
\n\u2018Poem,\u2019 then it\u2019s OK.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

“I just got one more question for you,
\nJim,” I said, lifting my glasses straight up on my face. “just kind of an
\noverall…it\u2019s a soul question: is death the ultimate reward for a lifetime of
\nachievement? And what is your advice, if any, for people who aspire to use poetry for
\ntheir own ends?”<\/p>\n

\n Well, uhm, I
\ndon\u2019t see how you could use…well, yes, you could use poetry for your own ends, I
\nsuppose. The question is: what would it get you? And then, as far as death being a reward
\nfor a lifetime of achievement…Ahh!! No, death…death sucks, man, you know. I mean,
\nthere are times I might think “Great,” you know, if I think I want to die, you
\nknow, I don\u2019t give a fuck about a lifetime of achievement, or a lifetime of failure
\nor anything…I just want to get the fuck away, see what\u2019s happening over there. But
\nmost of the time I think, you know…Ahh! I don\u2019t want death being a reward for a
\nlifetime of achievement. Death is just, you know, you die man. If you thought that way, I
\nwould have coordinated everything to have…but see, I always think, you know, my next
\nwork is going to be my best and stuff. That\u2019s kind of what I\u2019m saying in that
\nKurt Cobain poem, in that one section…which is kind of an impudent way to think. You
\nknow, I remember a review in Creem Magazine once, a fantastic review of the Catholic
\nBoy<\/i> album that they kind of glommed in–cuz the Basketball Diaries<\/i> had just
\ncome out in paperback, mass-market paperback from Bantham. With the two of them together,
\nthey saw it as a whole renaissance and stuff. And they said in the interview if this guy
\ndied now, his work would be, you know, his legacy would be done…I don\u2019t believe
\nthat, but if I did die,…I would have died a lot prettier and I would have died with a
\nlot more mystique happening to me, especially the way I died…the example for that is Jim
\nMorrison, you know. I mean, did he want to do it by design? I love Jim Morrison\u2019s
\nsinging and stuff, and he\u2019s written some good lyrics. But basically I always thought
\nhe was really a terrific singer, and he had a great sense of…he had a poet\u2019s sense
\nof phrasing, certainly. But, if that was the case, you know, you got to pick the right
\ntime to die in your career, and that\u2019s a stupid thing to do. Like Frank O\u2019Hara
\nsaid, “You should die for love, not for poetry.”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\u00a91999 Frank DiCostanzo & Michael Workman<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n


\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Home > Research > Interviews > Jim Carroll: Caught in a Trap (1999) Jim Carroll: Caught in a Trap by Frank DiCostanzo & Michael Workman Lumpen Times 8 May 1999 Exclusive: includes the entire Jim Carroll interview! On Saturday, May 8, diarist, musician and poet Jim Carroll made a rare appearance at Chicago night spot … Continue reading Jim Carroll: Caught in a Trap<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":4163,"menu_order":21,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"folder":[39,44],"class_list":["post-4465","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/P9VlUH-1a1","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":4163,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/feature-articles\/","url_meta":{"origin":4465,"position":0},"title":"Feature Articles","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"Feature articles are general interest articles about Jim Carroll. Some of them include interviews and reviews and, as such, are also included in the Interviews and other areas within the Research Library of the site. These articles are arranged in chronological order. Ted Berrigan, \"Jim Carroll.\" Culture Hero 1.5 (1969).Poet\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":3992,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/jim-carrolls-interviews\/","url_meta":{"origin":4465,"position":1},"title":"Jim Carroll’s Interviews","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"These, arranged in reverse chronological order, represent just a few of Carroll's interviews. I continue to add more as I have time; most of the newest additions are PDFs. Margo Tiffen, A Previously Unpublished Jim Carroll Interview Surfaces.\" Poetry Foundation 17 May 2017. M. Patricia Li, \"Basketball Diaries Author Bounces\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":10046,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/jim-carroll-biographies\/jim-carroll-the-complete-marquis-whos-who-1999\/","url_meta":{"origin":4465,"position":2},"title":"Jim Carroll: The Complete Marquis Who’s Who 1999","author":"Cassie Carter","date":"June 3, 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"James Dennis CarrollBorn: August 1, 1951 in N.Y.C.Occupation: poetFamily: s. Thomas Joseph and Agnes (Coyle) C.; m. Rosemary Klemfuss, 1978 (div.) Addresses: Office, c\/o Penguin USA, 375 Hudson St, New York, NY, 10014-3658 .Awards: Recipient young writer's award Random House Books, 1970.Positions Held: writer, poet, spoken word performer, writing instr.,\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4620,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/performance-reviews\/preview-university-of-montana-1999\/","url_meta":{"origin":4465,"position":3},"title":"\u201cOne wrist in heaven, one ankle in hell\u201d: Jim Carroll to Speak in Missoula\u00a0","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"University of Montana (Missoula, MT)8 November 1999Nate Schweber, Eye Spy Reporter\u00a0Kaimin Online19 October 1999 When I discovered Jim Carroll a week before my 20th birthday, it took me 30 seconds to adopt the last sentence of the first chapter of his book \u201cForced Entries\u201d as a personal motto. After a\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4060,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/works\/jim-carroll-music-and-spoken-word\/music-jim-carroll-jim-carroll-band\/runaway-e-p\/","url_meta":{"origin":4465,"position":4},"title":"Runaway EP","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"Cover Art - Runaway EP (2000) - by Jim Carroll Runaway E.P.By Jim CarrollKill Rock Stars, 2000 Get this on AmazonSee also: Lyrics and Audio Library SONGS: Runaway Hairshirt Fracture (DEMO) I Want the Angel (LIVE) It's Too Late (LIVE) Falling Down Laughing (LIVE) Liner Notes PRODUCED BY ROBERT ROTH;\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"Cover Art - Runaway EP (2000) - by Jim Carroll","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/runaway.gif?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":4036,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/photos-video-audio\/press-photos\/","url_meta":{"origin":4465,"position":5},"title":"Press Photos","author":"Cassie Carter","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"The photos on this page may be reprinted provided the photographers are credited. Photographer credit:Jim Carroll (1998) \u00a9Ray Lego\/Cut the Fat Jim Carroll (1998) \u00a9Ray Lego\/Cut the FatDownload Photographer credit:Jim Carroll (1998) \u00a9Ray Lego\/Cut the Fat Jim Carroll (1998) \u00a9Ray Lego\/Cut the FatDownload Photographer credit:Jim Carroll (1998) \u00a9Ray Lego\/Cut the\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"Jim Carroll (1998) \u00a9Ray Lego\/Cut the Fat","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/JC1998_bw_001.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/JC1998_bw_001.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/03\/JC1998_bw_001.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/4465","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4465"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/4465\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6013,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/4465\/revisions\/6013"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/4163"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4465"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"folder","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/folder?post=4465"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}