{"id":4213,"date":"2022-01-10T22:18:04","date_gmt":"2022-01-10T22:18:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost:8000\/?page_id=4213"},"modified":"2025-03-05T18:17:34","modified_gmt":"2025-03-06T02:17:34","slug":"unspoken-geniuspoets-punks-and-scenes","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/jim-carrolls-interviews\/unspoken-geniuspoets-punks-and-scenes\/","title":{"rendered":"Unspoken Genius: Poets, Punks, and Scenes: An Interview with Jim Carroll"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Nate Schweber, Eye Spy Reporter<\/strong>
University of Montana Missoula
Kaimin Online<\/a> 5 November 1999<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Jim Carroll is a bona fide cultural icon. Born in New York City, he spent his teenage years shooting hoops and heroin in a time documented by his best selling book \u201cThe Basketball Diaries.\u201d Years later, he sold millions of records as the lead singer\/songwriter for The Jim Carroll Band. Since then, he\u2019s been relentless in publishing books and poems. Wednesday, he speaks at the UC Commons at 8:30 p.m. (The show was rescheduled from Monday, Nov, 8.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I got an opportunity to talk to Jim Carroll via telephone from his apartment in New York City. Carroll\u2019s manager told me it would be a 10-minute interview, but we ended up talking for more than an hour. Here are some snippets from our conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mr. Carroll, what got you into writing?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

What got me writing was a lot of things that were both noble and ignoble. I suppose there was something romantic about writing. I knew I had talent. But I wasn\u2019t into poetry when I first started writing \u201cThe Basketball Diaries\u201d because, coming from my neighborhood, poetry was just considered sissy. But when I got a scholarship to this private school, I saw that there were certain contemporary poets who had the same power as rock \u2018n\u2019 roll. And I didn\u2019t know about limitations then; I thought anyone could do this. So I just went ahead and did it, and fortunately I got adopted as sort of the token prodigy at the poetry project downtown when I was very young. But I would\u2019ve written anyway.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then, there\u2019s all the less noble reasons, like the chicks that I was interested in weren\u2019t that impressed by the whole jock scene, you know. So it was a way to get girls. That\u2019s half kidding around, but there is a kernel of truth in it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But in a serious sense, when I did start writing, it was like an outlet for being outside of things. It filtered my life, and it gave it more clarity. I don\u2019t know what I would\u2019ve done without that. Because I had a lot of problems in those times too, and I think if it wasn\u2019t for writing I probably would\u2019ve wound up dead or totally lost like a lot of friends of mine were.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In the book \u201cThe Basketball Diaries,\u201d you write about having a fantasy about taking a machine gun to your classroom, and there\u2019s a vivid scene of that in the movie. Some people thought this could\u2019ve inspired the shooting in Columbine: What do you think?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

What I can\u2019t understand is, if you were an outsider when I was in school you got involved in doing something creative, you know. You got in a band or you started to write or you got involved with the peace movement or something. I suppose it\u2019s the Internet or something, but those guys latched on to being little fascist Nazis.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Those guys just wanted to kill themselves. They weren\u2019t making any statement; they weren\u2019t doing anything. They just wanted to die because they couldn\u2019t hack it, and they did a really chicken-shit thing. And I\u2019m sure none of those people they got were people who actually antagonized them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I thought that scene in \u201cThe Basketball Diaries\u201d (the movie) was kind of corny when I saw it, having Leonardo Di Capprio with that trench coat and that Terminator look. But, I mean, I didn\u2019t like the movie that much. I thought the performances were good; I didn\u2019t think it had that much to do with the book.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don\u2019t see any correlation between art and causing someone to go off like that. I don\u2019t know how the press latched on to … well, they did find copies of \u201cThe Basketball Diaries\u201d at those kids\u2019 houses, but they never said anything about \u201cThe Basketball Diaries.\u201d And they never said anything about Marilyn Manson, yet the press brought it up. They kept showing that scene from the movie, and they kept bringing up Marilyn Manson because Leonardo is the most popular guy around and Manson\u2019s the most popular guy around. The press doesn\u2019t want to talk about some obscure German band.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Alright, now I\u2019m a pretty huge Rolling Stones fan, and there\u2019s a great photo of you jamming onstage with Keith Richards on your song \u201cPeople Who Died\u201d in a New York club in 1980. Tell me about how that came about.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

(Laughs) Originally when I signed, it was with the Stones\u2019 label, and the idea was for Keith to produce that first album \u201cCatholic Boy.\u201d It was totally, like, strangeness to me \u2018cause I had just come back to New York to make the paperback deal for \u201cThe Basketball Diaries,\u201d and I\u2019d been in this long recluse period in California where the highlight of my day was walking my dog down to the post office.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Then when my band came to New York to play, the first two shows Keith played with us, it was great. We went over the song with Keith, and he basically knew it. But he was really stoned out of his mind before the show, and I thought it sounded terrible from the stage. Keith was turned up loud, so he was totally dominating the rhythms with the leads he was playing. But when I listened to the tape of it, it sounded fantastic. The second time he played, actually, Mick was singing too, and that was more of a happening, but it was more subdued. Keith had the song down, and it didn\u2019t have as much edge as the first time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But, I mean, it was great. Keith is a really great guy. I see him once in a while. I see Ronnie Wood \u2014 he lives in New York \u2014 and Keith I see, and I see Jagger once in a while. I thought Jagger would be like snotty rock \u2018n\u2019 roll jaded guy, but he was always really sweet to me. And Keith is Keith. What you see is what you get.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now I was reading in an interview that you were talking about writing a book about a painter who thinks his work is empty, so he goes out looking for truth, and he doesn\u2019t want to paint again until he gets some answers. I was wondering if that was inspired by issues you dealt with in your own art.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, I\u2019ve always tried to have some kind of spiritual quality in my work. Creating images that are evocative enough for different people to interpret in different ways means that they\u2019re going to apply them to their own life, and if they do that, then you\u2019re connecting with them in a spiritual way. I suppose if I didn\u2019t think that it had some spiritual aspect to it or if it wasn\u2019t truthful \u2014 if it was just a facade of style or something \u2014 at this point I just wouldn\u2019t bother doing it. I\u2019d just pack it in; it really wouldn\u2019t be worth it for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Patti Smith said that you taught her how to write poetry. How did that happen, and, on flip side, how did you learn to write rock \u2018n\u2019 roll?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

When I first knew Patti, she was just coming from art school and doing a lot of drawing, and she wasn\u2019t into writing that much, but she was a huge rock \u2018n\u2019 roll fan. And, you know, we were having this thing together. I guess it was just from being around each other a lot and the fact that she was making this transition from drawing and plastic arts to being around words that she started to write more. On the other hand, it was Patti who was a big influence on getting me into doing rock \u2018n\u2019 roll. Even back in those days she said we should both get into rock \u2018n\u2019 roll and start a band. Even though neither of us could play an instrument, that didn\u2019t seem like any impediment to Patti. And who knows what would\u2019ve happened, but I went out to California.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It just so happened that I was spending time with Patti when her album \u201cEaster\u201d came out and she was touring. I went to San Diego with her after she played in San Francisco, and I wound up being in some punky movie with her. Then in San Diego, her opening act got in a fight with her roadies and got booted off the tour. Patti said, \u201cJim could open the show; we could do what we did in this movie,\u201d and I said, \u201cI can\u2019t do that; I read that piece and I don\u2019t have it with me.\u201d But I was writing songs at the time for the Blue Oyster Cult, and I said, \u201cI have these songs from the Cult that I have memorized, and I could maybe do a couple of those.\u201d And it was the first time I was in front of this rock \u2018n\u2019 roll audience. I didn\u2019t know whether I should thank Patti or kill her for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

People talk about you as being one of the last ties to both the beat movement of Kerouac, Ginsberg and Burroughs, and also of the Andy Warhol\u2019s Max\u2019s Kansas City, Factory and Velvet Underground scene. Where is the counterculture these days?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The counterculture is all over. I was in Seattle about two weeks ago, and there\u2019s still a lot of terrific bands there. And it doesn\u2019t have all that in fighting of, like, bands hating each other. Bands work with each other. I mean, even bigger bands. I saw Peter Buck from R.E.M., and those guys are the sweetest guys. They don\u2019t have any attitude at all; there\u2019s plenty of guys in rock \u2018n\u2019 roll with an attitude, that\u2019s for sure. … I don\u2019t really make the scene in New York that much anymore. I think that there\u2019s, like, a big underground scene in cinema now; I think there\u2019s a good underground scene with that. But there\u2019s always an underground scene; I mean, the whole Velvet Underground scene.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s funny \u2018cause I just saw Lou the other night at some photographer\u2019s opening at a gallery. The photographer was the same guy who made that documentary that was on PBS.
\u201cLou Reed\u2019s Rock \u2018n\u2019 Roll Heart\u201d?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yeah, he was having a show of his still photographs, and I saw Lou there. I love the Velvet Underground; they were a huge influence on me and my writing and when I started to do music.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And the whole Andy scene really wasn\u2019t an underground scene. Andy was really above ground; Andy always mixed his art with money. He\u2019d have these crude money men to go out and get the Shah of Iran\u2019s wife to come pose for a fee. It was really quite perverse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But the CBGB scene came out of that. The most underground scene was the poetry scene when I was young, which was really a couple of generations past the beat scene. When I was young, I never really felt that connection with the beats. I always liked Allen Ginsberg\u2019s, poems and I liked William Burroughs …
And Kerouac liked you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I only met him like two times, and he liked \u201cThe Basketball Diaries\u201d because it was real simple; it was just straight storytelling. But he was a bitter alcoholic the times I met him, and I didn\u2019t really get to know him.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I knew Allen from when I was really young; I learned a lot from him, and we were good friends through his whole life. I still can\u2019t believe he\u2019s gone; it still feels like he\u2019s still alive to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I was more influenced by the New York poets, like Frank O\u2019Hara and John Ashbury.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But I think that there\u2019s underground scenes emerging all the time in every form of art. I think that, ever since the punk rock movement and the grunge movement, you don\u2019t know where the next city is going to be where some terrific bunch of bands can emerge. The whole thing is \u2014 the one thing in common with the grunge scene in Seattle and the whole New York punk scene at CBGB \u2014 all the bands supported each other, like the Talking Heads and the Ramones, and Patti\u2019s band and Television. And that\u2019s what it was like in Seattle, too, and it still is. The bands really support each other. They don\u2019t put down each other and try to step on each other. And, I mean, when that petty shit gets into it, that makes a scene real toxic. Wherever the next scene pops up, it will have to have that type of atmosphere where the bands really have a community, rather than a sense of trying to burn each other all the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I don\u2019t know where it will come from. Could be Montana; who knows. (Laughs)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Jim Carroll, you\u2019re seriously one of my heroes; how can I learn to write poems and songs like you?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don\u2019t know; just be honest with yourself, you know (laughs), and read a lot. Don\u2019t be afraid to steal stuff, but be good at it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u00a9 1999 Kaimin Online<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\n\n\n

The original article was found here: http:\/\/www.kaimin.org\/nov99\/11_5\/eyecarroll.html<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Nate Schweber, Eye Spy ReporterUniversity of Montana MissoulaKaimin Online 5 November 1999 Jim Carroll is a bona fide cultural icon. Born in New York City, he spent his teenage years shooting hoops and heroin in a time documented by his best selling book \u201cThe Basketball Diaries.\u201d Years later, he sold millions of records as the lead … Continue reading Unspoken Genius: Poets, Punks, and Scenes: An Interview with Jim Carroll<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":3992,"menu_order":18,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"folder":[44],"class_list":["post-4213","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/P9VlUH-15X","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":10044,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/jim-carroll-biographies\/jim-carroll-mercury-records-biographical-sketch-1998\/","url_meta":{"origin":4213,"position":0},"title":"Jim Carroll: Mercury Records Biographical Sketch 1998","author":"Cassie Carter","date":"June 3, 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Max's Kansas City has gone highbrow and Midtown; heroin has a chic; and punk rock has gone the acceptable and safe shopping mall route--not exactly the world Jim Carroll thrust himself into as a carpe diem teen and literary rookie genius. It's not the universe that welcomed The Jim Carroll\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4163,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/feature-articles\/","url_meta":{"origin":4213,"position":1},"title":"Feature Articles","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"Feature articles are general interest articles about Jim Carroll. Some of them include interviews and reviews and, as such, are also included in the Interviews and other areas within the Research Library of the site. These articles are arranged in chronological order. Ted Berrigan, \"Jim Carroll.\" Culture Hero 1.5 (1969).Poet\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4620,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/performance-reviews\/preview-university-of-montana-1999\/","url_meta":{"origin":4213,"position":2},"title":"\u201cOne wrist in heaven, one ankle in hell\u201d: Jim Carroll to Speak in Missoula\u00a0","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"University of Montana (Missoula, MT)8 November 1999Nate Schweber, Eye Spy Reporter\u00a0Kaimin Online19 October 1999 When I discovered Jim Carroll a week before my 20th birthday, it took me 30 seconds to adopt the last sentence of the first chapter of his book \u201cForced Entries\u201d as a personal motto. After a\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4169,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/feature-articles\/jim-carroll-from-poet-to-rocker-and-back\/","url_meta":{"origin":4213,"position":3},"title":"Jim Carroll: From Poet to Rocker–and Back","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"By Karla PetersonThe San Diego Union\u00a07 July 1989 There was one problem with the ad touting the upcoming appearance of the Jim Carroll Band at an Atlanta theater: the Jim Carroll Band wasn't appearing there. \"Our advertising is always real specific that I'm doing a reading and not a concert,\"\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":4484,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/background\/important-places\/archive-important-places\/","url_meta":{"origin":4213,"position":4},"title":"Archive: Important Places","author":"Cassie Carter","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"Home > Background > Important Places Jim Carroll: Important Places Updated 2 September 2009 This section offers interactive maps that allow you to see map locations of key Jim Carroll-related sites in New York City, as well as photographs of the sites, explanatory text, and related links. There are also\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":3992,"url":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/research\/jim-carrolls-interviews\/","url_meta":{"origin":4213,"position":5},"title":"Jim Carroll’s Interviews","author":"catholicboy.com","date":"January 10, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"These, arranged in reverse chronological order, represent just a few of Carroll's interviews. I continue to add more as I have time; most of the newest additions are PDFs. Margo Tiffen, A Previously Unpublished Jim Carroll Interview Surfaces.\" Poetry Foundation 17 May 2017. M. Patricia Li, \"Basketball Diaries Author Bounces\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/4213","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4213"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/4213\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8497,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/4213\/revisions\/8497"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/3992"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4213"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"folder","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.catholicboy.com\/WP\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/folder?post=4213"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}